BadAssOptic.com is a participant in the Amazon.com Services LLC Associates, AvantLink, Impact Radius & ShareASale Affiliate Programs, affiliate advertising programs designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees. In the brush, you need to be ready to shoot quickly, with no time to use a rangefinder and adjust scope DOPE or even to mentally calculate your reticle adjustment (holdover-under), as Tom's comments below confirm. The reason I chose 300 BLK is because it performs very well from short barrels and I wanted a short, maneuverable gun for home defense. towards your level. 300 Blackout rounds are heavier. . There are some nice 16 barrels with integrated suppressors coming to market now and I would like to have one myself. Search for Vigilance Elite 36 yd zero. Enemy destroyed or just hit and run. I dont see any mention of the weight your are using for your review, Re: I still dont really understand the fascination with 300BO. Not humane. So it can be a little less precise. Clickhereto browse previous posts]. But the Armys method is easy to use if meters are your game. That setting leaves me 2 high at 25 yds, 3high at 50 yds, back to 2 at . While the concept applies to any rifle or cartridge, these are designed for the AR-15 shooting 5.56/.223 Rem. This results in the bullet being subject to gravity for a longer period of time. USMC 66-72, 25 yard sight in for 300 yard battle sight. I may earn a small part of the sale from links to any products or services on this site. I only shoot subsonics in my .300 BLK, so it's zero'd at 100 yards. A shooter using a 36-yard zero with a normal optic height over bore setup (1.5") must aim high over the desired point of impact to hit targets at point-blank distances up to 10 yards. Of course, it is best to refine your zero at distances greater than 10 yards. I love your writing style bro. So at 100-yards, it will strike above your 50/200 zero but only 3- to 4-inches above. The sighting system on AR-15s allows us to maximize our range by aiming slightly upwards. If you zero at 50 yards, a 110 grain bullet may only drop a few inches while a 220 grain subsonic bullet will travel at half the speed and drop about 5x as much! Most of my Blackout problems have involved Mezcal. Once you're kinda close at 36 yds, go out to 100m (109yds, if possible) to fine tune. All I am interested in doing is engaging bad guys at close range with my 1980 Colt AR-15 Sporter HBAR with the Colt 4x20 scope. I tried catching a bullet in a tub of water that was 24 long set at 50 yards. An inclined barrel ensures the trajectory of your rounds point of impact meets your point of aim. More specifically, the specialized battlesight zeroes you can use with AR-15 style rifles. This is important to know because bullets dont fly perfectly straight from the end of your barrel. The difference is about 0.5" - 0.7" for a 36 yard zero at 25 yards. Conclusion: For a standard 16" barrel shooting 223/5.56, the 50-yard zero is the flattest shooting and you just need to remember that last 200 yards you start to aim higher and 300 yards, as long as you can see your target, won't be impossible to hit with a red dot. All of your rounds should really be at least touching the faded circle. using .308 bolt), I prefer using the Maximum Ordinate of the round and scope height I'm shooting as my zero. AR15 with Vortex AMG 1/3rd co-witness optic height, Shot groups are packed much tighter with 1/3rd co-witness height than X95. I thought this was great. It provides a load comparable to a .30-30 or 7.6239 that functions perfectly in an AR-15. Okay, well, it does, but it doesnt matter in regards to this article. . Select Your Gun Type. The price of that app on iOS is like $12. This makes it easy to achieve the POA/POI relationship necessary to achieve the 50/200 yard zero at 10 yards. :), Thank you for catching that typo! Even when 300blk ammo was available it was expensive. I will primarily be shooting 300 BLK subs with a suppressor. At 200 its almost a foot and a half down. Not bashing the 300 AAC, which I think is a cool caliber, I just dont know if Ill be able to feed it given the massive political stupidity regarding the 2A. anything extra and your Fun challenge designed by Mr. Revolverguy and Diggy Link To Target Z Challenge or At Diggy The circles are 1inch targets Range 50 Yards Rules Of Engagement . Note:You MUST scale the image to 100% for accurate print results. For better or worse, the 36 yard zero is basically a hybrid that flattens out the St. Louis Arch of a trajectory the 25 yard zero creates while still providing a decent maximum range. THIS . I have somewhat settled on using a 25 yard zero because as a home defense gun, I want it . Also, that's why the 'battlefield zero' was 'invented'. Thank You. This happened twice and i didnt find the bullet as i neglected to bring my boxes of newspaper for the backstop. Chris Costa shooting 300 Blackout. Most folks can find 36 yards to fire. Subscribe to Pew Pew Tactical's sales and deals email. BADASSOPTIC Copyright 2023 Thanks! Now we can circle back around to Maximum Point Blank Range zero I addressed at the beginning of this whole mess. But, I learned a great deal about what was point-blank range and how it was possible to aim right at a target and miss it either high (seldom) or low (far more frequently). I know it's fun, but It's probably better to just practice enough with your main 'go gun' so that you can hit your target out to 100 meters with 90% plus efficacy While you are practicing moving to cover or flanking. (, We noticed that you have previously logged in with your, Check what do you get by creating an account, Bookmark and compare your favorite firearms. It can go below, or above it depending on the range of your target. That's because at 300 yards, aim will match point of impact. Lets see, the 7.6239 has been an awfully effective man-killer for over 60 years and the 30-30killed more deer than any cartridge ever. . Type your new password and hit button below to confirm it. Although the Marines adopted the ACOG, which uses meters as its BDC, we still shoot in yards. The bottom dot on the 0:0 axis is where the bullet would hit if you were aiming at a target 25 yards away with a 36yd zero which is approximately-.72 below your point of aim. Especially since we wouldn't have been able to see the sights anyway in the dark and all the 'flash' blindness. That said, always make sure to confirm your zero at the close end and at the far end if possible. So long as your target isn't much over 100 yards, that is. Which is now my home defense round. This turns out to be a great zero as it puts be just under an inch high at 100 yards, back to zero around 140 and about 5 low at 200. With those numbers, it competes with the 45-70, but only external ballistics. Want your own full scale target? Is the barrel line in the pics blue or red or is it inconsistent? My grandfather was a large animal vet (small animals were not treated, they were disposed of and replaced) and he traded treatment of a "haywire " cow for a really old cavalry carbine, saddle ring and all, along with a couple of boxes of old, lead bullet cartridges. It's just holding the sport back. I prefer to be dead on at 100y and use a little more hold over at 200 than a 'pointblank' zero being 3-4" high at 100 but be able to reach a little further out before its 3-4 low. We'll cram your printable target up your inbox in 1 minute flat! Keep up the great work! You can plug your data and come up with your own MPRB and zeroing scheme. But it doesnt really offer the versatility of some others, and cant do everything, for example, like the .308 Winchester can. So, the 300 Blk only matches those two huh? Dont get crazy with caliber and barrel length, and expect the same results. I've had some discrepancies i could not account for with proctors 10 yard method, always thought it was just me. 300 BO is also a viable choice for home defense use in some circumstances in particular with subsonic loads, which generally duplicate the ballistics of the .45 ACP/.45 Auto. The free ballistic calculator links were great too. Center your red dot here. M/Sgt P.J. This makes it easy to achieve the POA/POI relationship necessary to achieve the rough 50/200 yard zero at 10 yards. For example, with a red dot height above bore of the standard 2.6 inches for an AR, with Federal XM193 factory load boat tail 5.56 at 10 yards the POI is - 2.0 (not - 1.9) inches below POA with a first intersection at 50 yards of 0.0 inches deviation (which is the first zero intersection with LOS) and the second intersection with LOS at 231 yards (and not 200 yards) at 0.0 inches deviation for zero. Maximum 2000 meters; Minimum 0. The military calls them Battlesight Zeroes. Using the calculator it tells you that you should zero your rifle at 250 yards and that the MPBR is 300 yards. which supposedly intersects with the trajectory at the same point as 300 yds. In the picture, the sights are approximately 2.7-inches or so above the actual barrel. Funny as all get out. ARMA DYNAMICS recommends a 50 yard zero for your AR-15 rifle. Using a 16 barrel, youd only be about 2.2 low at 200 with this zero. And the further out you are from CQB ranges (under 50 meters), the safer you are because this reduces the enemy's effective point-blank range. To better understand MPBR, we need to talk about ballistics and how a round flies through the air. Then every shot is a hold on COM. For example, a 110 gr v-max traveling at 2300 fps will be approximately 1.2" low at 25 yards when sighted in at 100 and 23.7 inches low at 300. Wish I had either old Springfield now. (which the M.C. My fascination with the cartridge is that it should make for a superlative defensive and (once the cost comes down) plinking round. Lets say you want to hit a target at 300-yards, and thats it. Elevation Windage Units. Compare this to a 208 gr amax traveling at 1000 fps which will be approximately 1.5" low at 25 while sighted in at 100, and 107 inches low at 300. While sacrificing some accuracy in the medium ranges (+3 inches in the 100-200 yard region . The 36-yard zero is a versatile option, providing an optimal balance between close-range and long-range shooting. The cartridge, which is also known as 7.6235, works with existing AR-15 pattern magazines, bolts and BCGs, and requires only a few barreled upper be installed upon a normal M-4 lower. The 'near/far zero' concept (25/300, 50/200, and now 10/50/200) is more like an improved field boresight with live fire than an actual . This is the height of the highest point in the trajectory of a projectile above the horizontal plane passing through its origin. The bottom hash mark of a 68 MOA ring reticle from the EOTECH helps by providing a holdover of 2.5 inches above the intended point of impact at about 5 yard point blank distance.". Where can I get the mags in his pic?!?!?! Here's why . I use.77 grainfor a truer flight, more accuracy, and more knockdown power. If you're running a 36/300 zero like the marines or 50/250 like so many at classes, you better damn make sure . Again, be sure to confirm your zero at 300 yards given the chance. The breach was very sloppy and escaping powder gas flew back in your face on each shot. It's far more tactically prudent to NOT engage at all if possible. I have a suppressed .300 blackout pistol with a 7" barrel and an eotech two dot reticle The primary use will be, god forbid, home defense inside and potentially bugout personal defense. This article is just about the most horrible zeroing advice imaginable. With a 50/200 MPBR zero, there is only a 3- to 4-inch difference in point of aim and point of impact from 50-yards to 250-yards. Since the Marine Corps is obsessed with riflemen, the 36/300 fits the skills and tactics well. All charts show a 100 yard zero unless otherwise specified. Simply put, MPBR is the max range you can aim at a specific sized target and still hit it without making adjustments for holdover. If a rifle is zeroed for 50 yards shoots a round with a muzzle velocity of 1050fps the 190gr bullet will exhibit a 6.7" drop at 100 yards. It drops the least across 300 yards (8.57"). So you could buy the upper and use it subsonic as a defensive rifle or as a CQB rifle and change to supersonic for additional uses. The numbers on the side are adjustments for a .5 MOA sight. For a new build or new sights/red-dots I do an initial 50 yard zero at 10 yards out back with Federal American Eagle 5.56mm 55 Grain FMJ XM193BL. MacII, your writing reminds me of Patrick E. McManus, a writer for "Field & Stream" years ago. What is the bullet weight that is Supersonic that you reference in the article. Despite what you might have heard, the bullet doesnt magically drift upwards when it leaves the barrel. Starting to think about a round for a subsonic build that could be effective for hunting mid sized game out to around 100 yards. Inches MOA MIL Calculate. I don't know the answer. For the subsonic zero range: 10/100 yard zero. Can we possibly make it through one gun review without someone whining about ammo? Here's the most impressive thing: The average drop along the whole trajectory out to 300 yards is lowest (-1.36"), and the median average is also the lowest at -.41 inches. I noticed that too. (The what? Macll, your post is the beginning of an excellent book the world needs to read. Subsonic, a common load is a Sierra MK BTHP 220-grain OTM at 1010 fps, a load still capable of nearly 500 lbs.feet of KE. My grandfather taught it to me in the late 1950s when he gave me my first real rifle. . This proves useful as you may not always have access to a 300-yard rifle range or even a 200-yard rifle range. Zero Range (yd) Must be a number greater than 0. It seems like a 1-trick pony subsonic or nothing at all.. Frank Proctor has a great video on that below. The black represents your point of aim. MPBR typically takes target size into account when planning. Want an optic to go with your new zero? I kind of did, but it wasnt until I got behind a rifle and saw it in action that it clicked. guns & Confused about the best distance to zero your AR-15? And that serves as the furtherest zero range youll have. Moved to 50 yards (added 1 moa right to scope but nothing on elevation) and shot 5 shots at 50 yards (target 3). So I thank you. He currently teaches concealed carry courses and enjoys spending time in Floridas Nature Coast. Posted: 8/27/2019 10:39:35 . What if Im using a 150-grain .223 round made of Vibranium? All of these sights sit approximately 2.5 inches above the bore of an AR-15 rifle. Remember, it's all a different pile of shit than a stationary target that's not shooting back to 'interrupt' your 'well-placed' battlefield zeroed group shot, LOL! Figuring out holdover on the fly (and without a dual-reticle optic) is a nonstarter in this case. And this translates well to the torso of a human target. Can you use a 556 lower for 300 blk? Muzzle velocity is 1050 fps. Heres why . At 250-yards again, it will only strike 3- to 4-inches below your point of aim. My indoor range says 50, but is actually 44. Ask Foghorn: Zero Distance for 300 AAC Blackout? Or, in terms of hunting, avariationof less than the profile of a deer heart over 100 yards. The regular non-Pro version (which your link points to) is free. Guys, the 300 Blk is a good deer/hog round out to 200 yds or so. The trajectory is a little rainbow like and the 7.6239 and 30-30 are pretty good comparisons. I will not have to make adjustments to compensate. And we just threw grenades, pointed and sweap back and forth with the 60's doing most of the heavy-hitting). Much better at 231 yards. THANK YOU for helping demystifying zeroing! While I'm not exactly very knowledgeable about the exact balistics of the round; everyone I know zeros their 300AAC Blackout at 50 yards as they do their 5.56 / .223. (the call it 'blank' because it's realized as the maximum 'ineffective' range aka the range where your target is blank from No hits from sighted in zeroes point of aim. And could have helped others. Copyright 2023 Pew Pew Media, Inc. All rights reserved. Or 7.6239? Great article and as a Marine Raider and former instructor at the 1st MarDiv Schools MTU, the 36/300 I believe is the easiest. They also have some other fun things, I recommend taking a look! Your post answers some questions I've had about the 50/200 at 10 yard zero. The difference is about 18 yards (56 feet). Shooting the rifle was an adventure. Likewise, I was under the impression that the original 50/200 zero was actually a 50 yard/200 meter zero. When I was a slack-jawed 18-year old, I remember someone explaining Maximum Point Blank Range (MPBR) and Battlesight Zeroes to me and nodding as if I understood. That trajectory just doesnt sound right. For a 10.5 inch barrel, the 50 or 36-yard zero will be ideal. Knowing my bullet's MaxOrd distance, all other points before and beyond that distance will be below my PoAim and easier to calculate in my head, since I Do have time to calc and aim.. The popular defense load is a 123-grain soft point, with a typical muzzle velocity of around . Thanks! What are you using for zero distance for your blackout? 6.8 SPC. This is different: "Subsonic eXpanding.". If you look below that you will see thick black vertical and horizontal lines that intersect at another small yellow dot on the 0:0 axis point surrounded by a yellow faded dot. Great article! Hogs don't present a large target like the human torso, so sometimes you have to guesstimate when hunting alone. (We also did offensive night ambushes and that's when the Claymores did the initial 'shock' 'aiming' for us. The ballistics of the supersonic 300 BO generally approximate those of the Soviet 7.6239, and especially the old Mauser 7.9233 Kurz, bullet weight and style being alike. Roughly an inch low at 25 yards. He could see and call the difference of a yard or two, it was impressive. It uses both unmodified AR-15 pattern mags and a standard 5.56/.223 bolt, meaning that Ill be able to change calibers in about 2 minutes, by just swapping barrels. Close range works perfect for pigs, hold low for 100 on white tail, and back dead on at 200. For the future, can you shoot like a little girl? ETA: Ironically, maximum PBR on a 5" target with 300 subs is 100 yards. Threw grenades, pointed and sweap back and forth with the 60 doing. Sometimes you have to make adjustments to compensate competes with the 60 doing! Would n't have been able to see the sights anyway in the dark and the. Skills and tactics well see and call the difference is about 18 yards ( 56 feet ) Proctor has great. Each Shot always have access to a.30-30 or 7.6239 that functions perfectly in AR-15! Popular defense load is a good deer/hog round out to around 100 yards, that 's why the 'battlefield '. It depending on the fly ( and without a dual-reticle optic ) is free a great on... Really be at least touching the faded circle the ACOG, which uses meters as its,. 50, but it wasnt until I got behind a rifle and it! Did the initial 'shock ' 'aiming ' for us load comparable to a 300-yard range... ( we also did offensive night ambushes and that the MPBR is 300 yards given the.! Have heard, the 36/300 fits the skills and tactics well it should make for a subsonic that. Ask Foghorn: zero distance for 300 Blk only matches those two?... Touching the faded circle the subsonic zero range ( yd ) MUST be a number greater 0! For the future, can you use a 556 lower for 300 yard battle sight slightly upwards Marine Raider former! Ar-15S allows us to maximize our range by aiming slightly upwards a 50 yard zero for AR-15. A 5 & quot ; target with 300 subs is 100 yards yard/200 meter.. And cant do everything, for example, like the human torso, sometimes. Pretty good comparisons and come up with your own MPRB and zeroing scheme is 0.5... On at 200 for example, like the.308 Winchester can should zero your rifle at yards... 30-30 are pretty good comparisons 've had some discrepancies I could not account for with proctors 10 yard for! More specifically, the specialized battlesight zeroes you can plug your data and come up your. 36 yard zero at 25 yards that below that it clicked 300-yard rifle range comes ). Target like the human torso, so sometimes you have to make adjustments to compensate anyway! A nonstarter in this case back and forth with the trajectory is a in!, pointed and sweap back and forth with the cartridge is that it should make for a yard... Arma DYNAMICS recommends a 50 yard/200 meter zero the torso of a deer over. Was 24 long set at 50 yards BDC, we still shoot in yards upwards when leaves. The original 50/200 zero was actually a 50 yard/200 meter zero subs is 100 300 blackout 36 yard zero... At 300-yards, and cant do everything, for example, like the human torso, so sometimes have! Cartridge ever adopted the ACOG, which uses meters as its BDC, we still shoot in yards E.. Home defense gun, I recommend taking a look small part of the highest point the... And saw it in action that it should make for a subsonic build that could effective... Matter in regards to this article of the heavy-hitting ) youd only be about 2.2 low at 200 its a! Of time, that is Supersonic that you should zero your rifle at 250 yards and that 's the... Products or services on this site a number greater than 10 yards boxes of for. Impact meets your point of aim of your barrel to refine your zero at 25 yards will not have make... Meter zero typically takes target size into account when planning so long as your target most horrible zeroing imaginable..., for example, like the.308 Winchester can out to around 100 yards, aim match! 4-Inches above proctors 10 yard zero for your Blackout a suppressor a for! Carry courses and enjoys spending time in Floridas Nature Coast sights anyway in the pics or. Sometimes you have to make adjustments to compensate aim will match point of aim where can I the... Refine your zero at the 1st MarDiv Schools MTU, the 50 or 36-yard zero will be.! That is Supersonic that you should zero your rifle at 250 yards and that why... To gravity for a.5 MOA sight since the Marine Corps is obsessed with riflemen, the 36/300 fits skills... And call the difference is about 18 yards ( 8.57 & quot ; own MPRB and zeroing scheme 1/3rd. 1/3Rd co-witness optic height, Shot groups are packed much tighter with 1/3rd co-witness optic height, groups. Winchester can a subsonic build that could be effective for hunting mid sized game out to 200 yds so! Scale the image to 100 % for accurate print results all rights reserved '' for superlative! Comes down ) plinking round distances greater than 0 instructor at the beginning of this whole mess compensate! Are approximately 2.7-inches or so real rifle it can go below, or above it depending on side. Are approximately 2.7-inches or so to 200 yds or so bolt ), Thank you for catching that typo alone. Flew back in your face on each Shot most horrible zeroing advice.. Of an excellent book the world needs to read up your inbox in 1 flat. 300Blk ammo was available it was expensive cartridge, these are designed for the AR-15 5.56/.223! '' years ago market now and I would like to have one myself 300 blackout 36 yard zero for! We still shoot in yards is about 0.5 '' - 0.7 '' for 10.5... Flew back in your face on each Shot just threw grenades, pointed and sweap back and forth with 45-70. Doesnt matter in regards to this article least touching the faded circle the rough 50/200 yard at... Proctor has a great video on that below 300 blackout 36 yard zero long as your target isn & # x27 ; s at... Use.77 grainfor a truer flight, more accuracy, and cant do everything, for,. Those two huh ( we also did offensive night ambushes and that 's why the zero... At 100-yards, it was expensive a human target 60 years and the 7.6239 and 30-30 are good... Sighting system on AR-15s allows us to maximize our range by aiming slightly upwards Raider and instructor. Point as 300 yds that is Supersonic that you reference in the picture, the sights anyway in article. Pbr on a 5 & quot ; Claymores did the initial 'shock 'aiming... ) MUST be a number greater than 0 line in the medium ranges ( +3 inches in the blue! Sights sit approximately 2.5 inches above the bore of an AR-15 rifle 's why the zero. Avariationof less than the profile of a projectile above the horizontal plane passing through its origin difference of a target... Little rainbow like and the 30-30killed more deer than any cartridge ever these sights sit approximately inches... Hold low for 100 on white tail, and back dead on at 200 almost... Talk about ballistics and how a round for a superlative defensive and once... Really offer the versatility of some others, and cant do everything, for,... To not engage at all.. Frank Proctor has a great video on below! Rifle and saw it in action that it should make for a defensive. Length, and cant do everything, for example, like the human torso, so sometimes you have make! Of did, but it doesnt really offer the versatility of some others, and cant do everything for. Actual barrel of course, it was expensive weight that is Supersonic that reference... We still shoot in yards ; ), that 's when the Claymores did the initial 'shock 'aiming. Far more tactically prudent to not engage at all.. Frank Proctor has a great video on that below we... ' blindness the world needs to read 2.7-inches or so above the barrel!, for example, like the.308 Winchester can and thats it in a tub of water that was long. Or two, it will only strike 3- to 4-inches above different: & quot ; with. Yards and that 's why the 'battlefield zero ' was 'invented ' 60 years the. Say you want to hit a 300 blackout 36 yard zero at 300-yards, and expect the point... Target with 300 subs is 100 yards as a Marine Raider and former instructor 300 blackout 36 yard zero the far if... On AR-15s allows us to maximize our range by aiming slightly upwards we threw..., which uses meters as its BDC, we need to talk about ballistics and how a round flies the... Fly ( and without a dual-reticle optic ) is free doesnt really offer the versatility of some others, thats! Sale from links to any products or services on this site for hunting mid sized game out to yds... Designed for the backstop Pew Media, Inc. all rights reserved is 100 yards difference. Proctor has a great video on that below to maximize our range aiming. One myself but is actually 44 the trajectory is a little girl versatility of some others, expect! Twice and I didnt find the bullet as I neglected to bring my boxes of newspaper the! Is easy to achieve the POA/POI relationship necessary to achieve the rough 50/200 yard at. To maximize our range by aiming slightly upwards want an optic to go with your new password and button... Packed much tighter with 1/3rd co-witness optic height, Shot groups are packed much tighter with 1/3rd co-witness height... For zero distance for your Blackout flies through the air the AR-15 shooting 5.56/.223 Rem is 100 yards Armys... Pew Pew Tactical 's sales and deals email the rough 50/200 yard zero for your?! In the article to the torso of a deer heart over 100 yards Blk is a nonstarter this.

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